The important part of any discussion as to whether a belief system has “caused” tragedies in the past or will do so in the future must be based on the logical connections between the tenets of the position and the resultant actions of the position’s holders. We can yell at each other all day that Hitler was a Catholic and Stalin was an atheist, but it doesn’t matter; the fallacy at hand is called “false equivalence.” It is a result of implying that because one trait is shared between two items, so must another, e.g. “Stalin brushed his teeth, and killed millions. Obama also brushes his teeth. Therefore, he is likely to kill millions.” This is obviously silly; they may share a trait, but one must make a direct connection between tooth brushing and the conclusion being drawn, killing.
Similarly, when one says, “Stalin/Pol Pot was an atheist, and so are you. Therefore you will also do immoral things,” this is just as silly as the tooth brushing argument, until you prove that atheism leads to immorality in the first place. So, the introduction of Stalin is just a pointless emotionally-charged debate tactic.
In truth, there is no connection between immorality and atheism. It is just as logical to follow “I don’t believe in God …” with either “ … therefore I will make this world as moral and happy a place to live as I can, because I know we all only get the one chance” or “ … therefore I will not be afraid of hell and likely commit murder.” The assumption that only the latter is true is enormously insulting. I would hope that the fear of punishment is not the only thing standing between you, dear reader, and a murderous rampage.
On the other hand, the connection between many religious texts and immoral action is much easier to make; most of the major, proselytizing religions have textual aspects that suggest believers are superior to non-believers, or that command believers to convert or conquer non-believers. Atheism has no such elements. So next time someone says that atheism will logically lead to violence, remind them of the importance of 1) the logical connection between ideology and action, and 2) the dangers of throwing stones while living in glass houses.
Connor Oakes is a fourth-year political science major.
Whether answered in the affirmative or not, the question bears no relevance to the wish (or prayer) that God might exist; so the fact that the inquiry is made at all is an intriguing one. Quite telling, too, is the childish combativeness with which this accusation is often dealt. I imagine that the religionist (i.e. one pleased by religion’s existence) in our modern society feels a mounting uneasiness as he increasingly finds himself backing up closer and closer into a corner, pressured by various rational forces — such as ethics, science, and history — to make sense of the myth his faith is founded upon. Once surrounded by reason (with “hands up,” so to speak) the religionist may go one of three ways: submit to one’s sensibility and quit with the faith; further entrench oneself in dogma and superstition, thereby becoming radicalized; or descend into an incoherent “relativism” characterized by fatuous proclamations to the effect that what may be “true for me” need not of necessity be “true for you.”
It is this last, disheartened lot of religionists from which the question of atheism’s tendency to motivate atrocity mostly arises. Indeed, this accusation against non-believers is quite the naturally ignorant one to put forward: After all, the religionists must somehow counter the atheistic provocation that only out of religion is violence quickly born and more swiftly justified. So they declare: “Ah, you atheist, don’t you see Hitler was the greatest atheist of all, for he saw that without God he could do anything, and so from his disbelief the Holocaust naturally followed. A true man of faith wouldn’t have done that.” Atheism, in other words, is no less corrupt and no less corruptive than any other religion.
A worthy attempt, my religious comrades, but I am afraid that is simply not true. This is because there is nothing substantive about atheism: All it is really is a lack of one belief, a belief that god(s) exist. Therefore, innumerable belief systems may be consistent with atheism. To put the point strongly, an atheist is just as likely in principle to favor communism as he is to favor democracy or aristocracy.
Let there be no doubt: It was totalitarianism and human malevolence that wreacked atrocities, not the lack of one single belief.
Brian Gallagher is a fourth-year philosophy major.
Very well done. I wrote an article on the same subject in which I addressed the fallacy that religion prevents mass murders by showing that Christianity alone killed far more people than “atheism” has over a much longer period of time, despite having much smaller populations available and far less infrastructure and technology. I really wish more atheists and of course more theists were aware that this argument lacks all logical and numerical validity.
Atheism was responsible for most 20th century attrocities in the same way that mustaches were responsible for most 20th century attrocities. There is nothing in atheism that argues for or implies that these attrocities were legitimate – just as there is nothing in having a mustache that implies that these attorocities were legitimate. If a person came to that conclusion, he did not get it from atheism, just as he did not get it from the fact that he had a mustache. Of course, a lot of hate-mongering bigots like to promote hatred of atheists by blaming these attrocities on… Read more »
Dear Connor and Brian, Answer to your main question is no. Secondly it does not matter a great deal what Hitler and Stalin was. It matters what the belief of their countries were. Leaders will only get away with what the mass of the organized people of the country will allow. I have trouble with this word “atheism”. It meaning is not well defined and therefore should not be used to describe events in the past. It has been proven that man has needed god before he needed pottery. Keep in mind that the more knowledge man has the less… Read more »
The thing is, Hitler said “We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls…. We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity… in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people. ” As well as saying ” We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the… Read more »
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and… Read more »
Michael, Thank you for you caring. But I think you are wrong. Hitler’s message was a strong belief of Christians in his time. You are part of a newer Christianity, “Jesus Christ” movement. The churches have moved away from the Old Testament. The OT God was to be feared. He made Hitler look like a saint. Plagues and floods that wiped out more than any war. Order the killing of man, woman and children of whole towns. You can use the bible for this history. I will have to side with the experts and facts. Hitler was a Christian. Look… Read more »
The bible is very clear on this. Just because someone proclaims to be a Christian does not make it true. This is a natural law that cannot be argued. A man is a man because he is born a man. In the same way, a tree, having once been a seed, grows and spreads its roots and is recognized as such. If a man said he was a tree, people would laugh, for clearly he is not a tree. He has no resemblance to a tree. He bears no fruit. The same is true with a man who calls himself… Read more »
You are going to unilaterally disown anyone as a Christian whom you don’t like? Who gave you that authority?
As a Christian, you can’t say with any absolute conviction that genocide is wrong. In the Old Testament, God orders the Israelites to commit mass murder and genocide consistently. Ever hear the song, “Rivers of Babylon?” It is based on Psalm 137. The song leaves out the verse “Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” In the ancient world, genocide was standard practice and God and the Bible promotes this. Does the Bible say you should commit genocide right now? I don’t know. It is hard to get a coherent message out of… Read more »
Michael, Thank you for your reply. I differ with your thinking on some points. But I must say that your thinking is main stream for today’s Christians and is standard for religion learning out of the bible. This is all very good for talking about religion as a belief and moral guidance. And I understand that you feel that it is your calling to pass on the word of Jesus. But don’t you think it is up to God to decide who is a good Christian and who is not? Jim Jones was a great Christian until over 900 followers… Read more »
Nice try but that is the no true scotsman fallacy. I will give you a nice modern example, abortion clinc bombers. Hardcore christian fundies, ultra orthodox (As in, takes the bible literally). Or how about the whole massive anti-gay push by the religious groups? The sole argument I hear against it is bible based. Any “Science” they claim has been shown to be pure nonsense. Or how about the whole creationism stupidity? Let’s face it, a lot of atrocities and oppressions happening in the western world is religious based. Hell, the middle east is still fighting each other over who… Read more »
The fact of the matter is that religion itself (or the lack thereof) has little to do with acts of war, atrocities committed, etc. It is what is done in the name of, as a power tool. However one could also argue how many wars were instigated in the name of “Atheism” as opposed to in the name of Allah, Yahweh, Zeus, Jupiter, Mars, Odin, ad infinitum. It always comes down to power and money. (always follow the money trail) “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”… Read more »
So The Crusades had very little to do with religion, LMFAO.
Missed the point. The Crusades had a lot to do with religion. The point being that religion had a lot to do with money. Or forms of, such as trade routes, or control of land that trade routes were in.
No I didn’t miss the point. “The fact of the matter is that religion itself (or the lack thereof) has little to do with acts of war” So religion or Atheism has nothing to do with war. The fact is Religion does as you already pointed out in your reply. “The Crusades had a lot to do with religion.” ” However one could also argue how many wars were instigated in the name of “Atheism” ” I would lie to see one of these arguments. So no I didn’t miss the point. Maybe you aren’t being clear in your point… Read more »
*I would like to see*
Sorry, I was not clear in my remarks, and I may have missed your point. Point being that the reason for the war is not as much for religion as it is about money. Take the biggest and fastest growing empire. The Islam Empire. The reason it grew so fast was its tax system. Now look at all the big empires, except maybe the Hittite which was taken out by plague. And they were all lost by over taxation. Yes, the Islam Empire was lost when they changed the tax system. Point being that Yahweh, Allah and the other gods… Read more »
First off religion is a multi-level marketing scheme started with a con game plain and simple. Go back read Deuteronomy and Numbers about how the priest caste was instituted. One man reports talking to a burning bush no other witnesses supported by a close few. No others than family and close internal circle memebers were allowed in the tabernacle. The best of the best was offered in sacrifice and to be committed in the Tabernacle. (Yeah sure they were burning it all) Fast forward NT, one guy hangs out with his gang they go house to house and sponge off… Read more »
I would also like to see one piece of proof of a war caused by a lack of belief in the million and million of deities.
NoSacredCow Off the subject. But if anyone can help, please do. I have been following the money. I find the contracts predating the OT very interesting. And the interest rate and contract terms being the same from Ireland to Bagdad. The Interest rates being raised ½ percent by Alexandra the Great. That during the Roman Empire that more banking was done in Greece than Rome because Greece allowed LLC’s and Rome did not. The churches did most of the banking at that time. Rich Egyptian farmers formed their own banks, but they had to charge ½ percent less than the… Read more »
NoSacredCow
I like your comment about “Seneca the Younger”.
Nothing has changed.
Great information!
Mike
Atheism is to religion as abstinence is to a sex orgy.
Well somebody watches Bill Maher…
Maher has been known to steal stuff from me.
Maher should not be considered atheist as long as he supports Zionism.
Let’s put it this way:
1. Atheists are violent amoral brutes with no conscience or compassion.
2. Perhaps 3% of the U.S. adult population of 200 million are godless thugs: Some 6,000,000 well-armed predators ready to strike at a moment’s notice.
Really? You ought to be even more afraid…
Not even sure how to respond to this post. Are you a troll? Are you serious.
Except, I would like to point out that the population of the USA is over 300 million.
Sarcasm?
hope so , it is a sarcasm…
I said ADULT population, bozo. There are over 92 million minors. I told you how to respond to the post – BE AFRAID, VERY AFRAID, because a 6 million raging army of crazy armed atheists are awaiting orders from Pres. Obama to attack.
Chill out!
This atheist does not chill.
I misunderstood you. Thought you might have been a troll. Welcome! I see no reason to argue.
One cannot lay the blame of a war entirely at the feet of the rulers and their motives. If the motivation is money, power, and real estate, but the enlistment mantra is, “WMDs, Infidels, and Commies!” Those sentiments are also responsible. Put another way, Let’s say Hitler was lying about his feeling for the Jewish citizens. The animosity he stoked was very real. When a war is started with the battle cry, “Kill the theist!” I will believe that atheism is responsible for atrocities. Point of order: Chairman Mao, and Our beloved Leader may have called for the execution of… Read more »
Good point! And, there is nothing in Atheism to call for the execution of those who don’t believe in the same things as you. Those who would do that are doing it for their own reasons.
In the Bible, on the other hand, the Israelites are ordered to wipe out their rival groups. Now there is some inspiration!
If one cannot attribute horrors to athiesm that so obviously are connected by the root philosophy of the faith then how does one attribute horrors to other religions. Shouldn’t the toothbrush arguement apply to them as well? Your position has thrown out rational logic to support your own cause. You read too much Dawkins(mustache arguement)!