I know for a fact you don’t know whether or not God exists, which makes me wonder why you are going out of your way to prove something you have no absolute knowledge of. There are a lot of people in this world that piss me off, including that one religious-nut imposing their ideas to people on the street. But you are no better than that one religious-nut when you are putting the same amount of effort expressing how people of religion can’t live life logically. You insist that people of religion endure life by blindly following their faith. I have a question to all UCSB atheist columnists. Every time you write an article and discredit religion, why do you always limit yourself to Christianity and God? Why can’t you go all out and refute all religions and deities? I don’t think it is fair to the Christian population. I would honestly give you atheist columnists credit if you were actually atheist. How can you claim to be atheist when your arguments are centered on monotheism when you should argue against polytheistic religions, such as Hinduism?
To my knowledge, atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. So an atheist would reject the latter statement, correct? You are not living up to your name and I am truly disappointed. You would think that as fervent and active as you are toward Christianity (in the Daily Nexus) that you would hold the same standing towards all religions. Living in a tolerant country is a privilege; a privilege many people wish they had. I feel like living in such a tolerant country would come with respect for your fellow man; more importantly in our case, fellow collegiate. I feel at our institution, an equal respect and understanding should be shared among all students. You however, appear to be the outlier. Now I am not here to instill my values in you or to try to convert you, because that is intrusive and disrespectful. I am here to tell you as a fellow student that we (students) are here to share and discuss knowledge and ideas, no matter how controversial, so that we can learn with and from each other. We are not here to attack one another. I realize the irony in this statement but my intentions are not to attack. I am however, criticizing the atheist staff of the Daily Nexus.
You can’t let an individual represent a population as a whole. This goes for any group. I feel this is one of the main follies of Christians, and all other groups, whether they are monotheistic, polytheistic, theistic or atheist. Most groups adopt the same structure as the political spectrum; they range from conservative to radical. When you look at someone that lies in the middle of the spectrum it is almost impossible to discern what they are. However, when you look at someone on the extreme side of the spectrum, such as the radicals, it is very easy to point out where they stand. Unfortunately, radical Christians, or evangelicals, misrepresent most Christians because they are easy to spot. These radicals are always gaining media coverage or are on the street disturbing the public and thrusting their ideals onto people. The majority of the Christian population is not like this. They tend to be more reserved like most other social groups that lie in the middle of the aforementioned adopted political spectrum. The same goes for atheists and all other social, political, economic and religious groups. I am sure not all Muslims are billionaires and suicide bombers, just like I am sure that not all Jews are greedy. I thought we moved passed these stereotypes and radicals. I am set back by these articles that derive the basis of an argument from a stereotype or exaggeration.
Basically, stop worrying about religion. If you don’t believe in it, what’s the point in arguing about it through our newspaper? You don’t have to publicize your disagreement with religion. All we are creating is more hate toward each other, which is ironic because most atheists claim religion has started every war. Well, aren’t you starting this one?
Nic Grantham is a third-year sociology major.
The reason why atheists argue against religion is that we believe the world can be a better place, and through education we’ll be able to make the world a better place.
Part of the reason we fight for religious freedom is so that eventually religion can be abolished and peace can finally be attained on our planet and we can advance as a species ^_^
And to my knowledge atheists do not care what your religion is, if you happen to be Christian they’re going to argue about your God instead of Muhammad with you.
Congrats! Your diatribe made the top entry on Google News’ Atheism feed. I would expect that you’ll get a few replies. Let me be the first to tell you that if the dominant religion was Hindu, then atheists would be mostly talking about it. But it’s not. All non Xians in America are a tiny minority. So own up to the dominant position Xianity is in and argue for it. Save your weak victimhood for your coreligionists.
If there’s anything I know, it’s that in the face of well-reasoned arguments believers will inevitibly resort to ad hominem attacks. That’s clearly the case with Nick here. He doesn’t address any of the arguments made against his faith, he simply claims he’s being victimized.
What a whiny, borish letter.
Exactly! Let me play you a song on the world’s smallest violin.
This is the typical martyr-type outlook that Atheists get so annoyed with. Aren’t you doing exactly what you accuse of Atheists in this poorly-written article? Don’t let an individual represent a whole population. Stop worrying about religion.
Take your own advice.
Wendy… you offer a better argument than the guy you are agreeing with. It is hypocritical to tell “atheists” to look the other way while at the same focussing your attention on atheists.
You make me laugh… there is no ad hom here. This is what I mean about alleged atheists having no clue about formal logic.
All fallacies must be shown. You not only did not do that, there is no ad hominem in this article. An ad hom you see and all fallacies, must argue “therefore you are wrong” based on the fallacy. This article does no such thing.
Put downs are not ad homs. “You are ugly THEREFORE you are wrong” is an ad hom. “You are ugly” is not.
Try and learn your topic before writing on it. Thanks.
Ad hominem is not just “you are ugly therefore you are wrong” and it is definitely not, like you say, “you are ugly”. It is using an insult in order to try and belittle an opponents status in an argument. It might not be directly related, i’ll use another example: A: “Abortion is wrong” B:”you are bound to come to that conclusion, you are a priest”
Do you see? Ad hominem offers up a cure all for the failing opponent, by calling their opponents qualities into question
However i’m sure this is already your understanding.
Pedantically, using insult to try and belittle an opponent’s status is more precisely “source derogation” — that is, “insulting the source, dismissing his or her expertise or trustworthiness, or otherwise rejecting his or her validity”. Strictly speaking, however, the editorial letter looks more like Negative Affect: “responding to the persuasive attempt by getting angry, irritated, or upset”.
Those who routinely argue on one side or the other of such religious debates might find (doi:10.1207/S15324834BASP2502_5) potentially illuminating.
It may appear to you that atheists are the ones rocking the boat, but from their perspective, they are simply pushing back against recent and unparalleled Christian efforts to incorporate their particular religious viewpoints and practices into public law and proclamations by government officials, and to achieve special privileges and exemptions for their churches and other religious organizations. I can assure you that Muslims are viewed in exactly the same way by atheists when the try to introduce Sharia Law into predominently secular communities. Atheists don’t really care what silly things you believe in so long as these beliefs do… Read more »
Amen!
Though to give the devil his due, the Christian efforts are in part reaction to Supreme Court rulings such as McCollum v. BoEd, Engel v. Vitale, Brown v. Board, Abington v. Schempp, Epperson v. Arkansas, Stone v. Graham, Edwards v. Aquillard, and so on. Of course, some of those court cases were initiated in response to earlier pushes by Christians; and some of those pushes were reactions to the last great wave of Freethinkers around 1870-1920.
Round and round and round the wheels of history spin in their rut….
I couldn’t agree with this article more and I am an atheist. What you see is not atheists targetting christianity however, you are seeing people who hide behind the moniker “atheist” without knowing what an atheist even is. They’ll tell you atheism is a lack of belief, when a lack of belief is not anything at all. They’ll say they do not believe, therefore they are an atheist… when they didn’t believe when they didn’t exist and were not an atheist. Atheism has nothing to do with targetting any religion. It is simply the belief there is no god and… Read more »
The problem with, as an atheist, asserting there are no gods is that the definition of god(s) changes from person to person. I firmly believe that the majority of the defined gods of our society do not exist. Most can easily be shown false with simple logic. However, if someone says something like, “I think god is the universe.” Well, I believe in the universe, so I can’t then say I don’t believe in their god. Also, I’m all for letting people believe whatever silly things they want, as long as (as many have posted above) they don’t try to… Read more »
“For atheists I support, look to the Prime Minister of Australia…. Ms. Gillard… who openly supports public funding of churches. I see nothing wrong with that. In the US however (I am Canadian) it would cause a civil war if it was even dared to happen.”
I’m glad I’m American, then.
Christianity, along with all of the other religions out there make some really outlandish claims. Should we not point those out from time to time just to enlighten the followers that haven’t taken a critical look at their religious ‘beliefs’? I was raised a follower, but have long since left that practice behind after a long period of study and introspection – glad someone, somewhere raised the topic to me! As pointed out by earlier comments, when someone tries to make their religious values and morals into law we generally have a problem with it. You can practice your belief… Read more »
Many people will state “What’s the harm if some people choose to believe in a god ? “, just let them be. Well here is why. A person close to me had a horrible childhood. However she was always taught that “god” would help her and solve all of her problems. So every night she asked “god” to make it stop… and it never did .. year after year after year !!! After many years of this she gave up beleiving in god(s) and sought help from a family friend. If she was raised without the false hope of “god… Read more »
All humans will have some sort of pain and suffering. But when you don’t fill in gaps with super heros vs super villains, it allows you to deal with the pain and face it without superstiton.
I am writing from UK. Theists always start from the same error – that their god actually exists. No gods exist. Religions are all based on one idea – a guy in a funny hat who says “you don’t know what happens after you die, but I do. If you’re good it’ll be great and if you’re bad it’ll be awful. By the way, being good means ‘do what I say’ including who you can marry and have sex with, what you can eat, what you are allowed to read or believe, when you can work and a whole lot… Read more »
I’ve noticed that comments on many websites feature comments from Christians who are demanding to know why atheists in the US are always focused on Christianity. They say, “why don’t you attack Muslims?” What they should say is “Why do you attack religion?” This leads me to the conclusion that they don’t really care if atheists “attack” someone, as long as it’s someone they don’t like. If this antagonistic and selfish response is coming from the “Saved”, it doesn’t set much of an example. It seems that Christians are just as petty and selfish as the rest of us. So… Read more »
Good points.
This is so poorly written that it is difficult to read. As an alum, I am embarrassed. Perhaps sometimes it is acceptable to bend the rules of grammar, but grammar does serve a purpose in that it promotes clarity and helps you to get your point across. Aside from that critique, the author poses questions that he would be able to answer on his own with even just a moment of thought. It is obvious that “Ask an Atheist” often focuses on Christianity because Christianity is the dominant religion in the United States and one that manages to inject itself… Read more »
“You can’t let an individual represent a population as a whole. This goes for any group.” “The majority of the Christian population is not like this. They tend to be more reserved like most other social groups that lie in the middle of the aforementioned adopted political spectrum.” “…most atheists claim religion has started every war.” The hypocrisy, it burns. How can you claim to be atheist when your arguments are centered on monotheism when you should argue against polytheistic religions, such as Hinduism? See, if you used the time you spent ranting here on some research instead, you could… Read more »
As an alumni, I am disappointed by the lack of understanding that this article has demonstrated. The author asserts that atheists cannot “know” that there is no god, which is technically true, but a moot point. At the very core of atheism is the idea that one shouldn’t accept an idea without evidence. There is absolutely no objective, widely accepted evidence for an omnipotent deity (or deities) and as such atheists do no contend that one exists. Theists choose to believe that such a being must exist because of personal, non quantifiable, “experiences” or because they believe that the universe… Read more »
Atheists simply reject the very notion of the existence of gods. Thus we do not argue over a nonexistent premise. We also reject the cults of identity or personality. Thus Hitler and Stalin et al were straw men because it was their very persons that were assigned divinity and worshiped.
By the way – You are an alumnus, alumni being plural.
Ah thanks, as an engineer my diction is often lacking. Right I find it interesting that many do not see the similarity between nationalism and religion. I do however, at least in my own mind, make a distinction between theism and nationalism. Theism implies a supernatural element, a being that must exist outside the realm of science. I find the notion that something must exist simply because you feel it or want it to be true is a very archaic way of thinking.
The distinction between nationalism and religion is a little fuzzy in the world of religious studies. You might care to track down Robert Bellah’s “Civil Religion in America”.
Christianity is generally the target because of Christians trying to have their beliefs made law that all others have to obey. If the public and politicians would worry about important things like jobs and the economy instead of who someone is having sex with or trying to stop people from their right to choose, the atheist community would likely be much less ‘in your face.’ So to speak.
Hopefully this helps you understand the ‘why.’
Are you seriously questioning why there is a need to speak out against religion? I speak out against religions because they directly impact my life and the lives of those close to me in a negative way. Systems of belief that deny homosexuals the right to get married, don’t allow women to have agency over their own bodies, attempt to control sexuality, dismiss critical thinking, discourage use of contraceptives, and tell people they are evil sinners who will be punished when they die are not okay with me. I will speak out against them. You say you want to “share… Read more »
Who Really Believes Jesus Existed Anyways?
http://www.squidoo.com/who-really-believes-jesus-existed
The reason that the columnists of Ask an Atheist seem to (or actually do) focus on Christianity is because it’s the most prevalent religion people have to deal with in America, in general. Our rights are constantly being challenged with thinly-veiled religious arguments, such as with abortion and gay marriage, and anything involving prayer in school or forcing people to say “one nation under god” in the pledge of allegiance. When Christians want to shove their beliefs down everyone else’s throats (and it usually is Christians trying to get their beliefs enacted into law), you bet we’re going to have… Read more »
Hey guys, columnist of Ask an Atheist here. Thanks for all the responses! Check out Some of our older columns that answer some of this guy’s concerns, especially “Atheists Harp on Christianity in Effort to Tackle Ignorance” from May of last year. To quote: “But aside from practical concerns, the amount of attention I pay to different faiths is still going to vary in intensity. I am not so foolish to say that all religions are equally harmful and I certainly do have my least favorites. I dislike the Mennonite church quite a lot, because many of them indoctrinate and… Read more »
Hey Connor, atheist here.
I’d be interested in doing an interview or writing something up for your column. I’m an alumnus living and working at UCSB, and I’m passionate about atheism. Let me know if I can help out with your column at all, reply to this comment or look me up on Facebook.
That last paragraph sadly is sounds similar to opinion pieces during times of integration of color, women and lgbt. Those on your side who told others to “keep quiet and know your place” have lost those battles, you will lose this one. But guess what, when you do lose just like those other times, things will get better. And you won’t want to go back. So smile and go talk with your friendly neighborhood atheists.
Religion is the elephant in the room for the skeptical community. All of us (well, most of us) can agree that things like homeopathic practitioners, psychics, ghost hunters or anti-vaxers are wrong but even combined none of them are nearly as harmful to society as religion. We are skeptical because we believe that a society that thinks critically will be a healthier society. Were we to turn a blind eye to the most divisive, oppressive system in our history, we would lose the right to call ourselves rational thinkers. You accuse me of being overly critical of religion. Please, there… Read more »
“Absolute knowledge” of is a straw man; most atheists claim merely probabilistic knowledge. I don’t know absolutely that the next 18 rolls of some Nevada Gaming Comission certified roulette wheel won’t land on numbers 1 through 18 consecutively, but I can be probabilistically confident. As others have noted, the reason that US atheists (and other secularist Freethinkers) focus on Christians is that the national populace is predominantly Christian — currently about 76% of US adults (47% Protestant, 25% Catholic, 1% Orthodox, 4% generic/miscelaneous). Furthermore, Atheists seem to largely be motivated to activism by attempts to erode what they consider the… Read more »
…sigh; “GSS 1988 __suggests this__ is about”. Whoops.
Part of why we argue religion is because religion is illogical. If all the other things about religion weren’t true, I would still argue on this point. You have a right to your beliefs, but we have a right to criticize it. Whining about it is not going to change it.
“Ridiclue is the only weapon which can be used against uninteligable propositions” Thomas Jefferson.
Quoting the article:” You don’t have to publicize your disagreement with religion”.
Yea and Galelio didn’t have to publicize that the earth rotated around the sun. And women didn’t have to publicize that they wanted the right to vote.
I’d say since politicians who are Jews, Muslims and Christians have their hands on the button, considering this is my home too, and the only home our species has, I think I have every right, and even a duty to criticise absurd claims.
There is far too much of a push on both sides of the polictal isle to push a form of liberal/conservitive Jesus into politics. Despite “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion” And “No religious test” in the oath of office. No mention of the words “Jesus” or “Christianity” in the Constitution, nor any mention of any one religion being a litmus test or given favortism by the laws in the Constitution. Not to mention the Barbary Treaty article 11 “As the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the… Read more »
The Barnaby Treaty may be a less ideal example; you might want to look at the coverage in John Fea’s recent book which highlights some of the weaknesses. And pedantically, it wasn’t TJ behind the 1st. That was the work of his protégé, James Madison… who, however, also had a few things to say in support of the separation. “Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and… Read more »
Atheists are against all religions, but we especially target Christians because they are the group that is imposing “their” rules on our lives. “Good” Christians are getting into politics and interfering with our reproductive rights–they oppose contraception and abortion in all circumstances, even when the mother’s life is at stake and the baby wouldn’t survive in any case. Christian GOPs are even proposing a law that will make it legal for doctors to refuse to perform abortions to save the mother’s life–the mother would have no choice in the matter. . http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/11/protect-life-act-anti-abortion-bill_n_1005937.html?ref=tw . “Good” Christians deny evolution and science, lie… Read more »
yeah!