Students Mourn High Palestinian Death Toll in Gaza Strip



After the end of Gaza Awareness Week, I noticed the influx of apologies for the Israeli government in the Opinion section. That is fine — people have a right to express their opinion. Unfortunately these opinions have very little to do with the conflict and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza — which is what Gaza Awareness Week was meant to shed light on. One reoccurring theme is listing the technological innovations that have come out of Israel. I do not believe that anyone would argue that these breakthroughs are a bad thing, as they have helped people around the world. However, they have next to nothing to do with the conflict, and to ignore the Israeli government’s misdeeds (to put it lightly) in Gaza and the West Bank because of them is simply ludicrous. It would be like telling indigenous people in 19th century America that it’s OK that they are being ethnically cleansed because Thomas Edison, an American, invented the lightbulb. While these folks may think the lightbulb is pretty neat, they’re probably still not cool with being massacred.

[media-credit name="Justin Ma" align="alignleft" width="216"][/media-credit]And a massacre is exactly what happened from Dec. 27, 2008 to Jan 18, 2009. In those three weeks over 1,400 Palestinians were killed, over 5,000 wounded and tens of thousands of homes were destroyed. People were not allowed to flee Gaza and become refugees twice over (can’t forget al Nakba of 1948). Both Israeli as well as Egyptian officials worked together to bar the Gazan people from fleeing Operation Cast Lead. They were trapped in one of the most densely populated areas on the planet while being attacked by one of the most well-equipped militaries on the planet. These are not grossly exaggerated numbers pulled out of the air by Palestinian authorities, as was suggested by Matthew Gluschankoff’s letter to the editor, but were cited from Amnesty International, a highly respected third party non-governmental organization. Amnesty International collaborated with the United Nations to affirm these statistics. B’Tselem (an Israeli human rights group) also reported on the impact on human life as a result of Operation Cast Lead.

What makes this situation even worse is the ongoing economic and military blockade against the Gaza strip. Even after the wanton destruction two years ago, there has been little to no improvement in infrastructure because Israeli officials have banned most building material outright. In a statement made after the assault, John Holmes, under-secretary-general for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief coordinator, said that relief is essential for improvement.

“Many humanitarian workers, including most International NGOs, continue to be refused entry. Moreover, returning to the kind of access restrictions which were in force before the hostilities will be neither acceptable nor workable. If aid workers continue to face rigid limits on their ability to move in and out of Gaza; and if essential items such as construction materials, water pipes, electrical wires and transformers, key equipment and spare parts continue to be effectively banned, or only allowed in infrequently after endless haggling, the lives of the Gazan people cannot significantly improve,” said Holmes.

Of course, some people will say, “What about Hamas and the rockets fired out from Gaza?” This is a fair and valid question. Since 2000, 23 people have been killed by rocket fire. The number of people killed by the Israel Defense Forces in three weeks is hundreds of times more than that. This is not to discount the lives lost as a result of the rockets, but I am simply taking on the perspective that one life is equal to another, regardless of race, religion, regional location and other arbitrary factors. So assuming that all lives are equally sacred and precious, why are Palestinian’s lives treated like they are worth infinitely less than that of an Israeli?

For the record, I am no Hamas apologist. I believe the Hamas regime is corrupt, and I denounce its attacks on Israeli citizens just as I denounce attacks by the Israeli military on Palestinian civilians. But the difference between Hamas and the Israeli Government, is that Hamas makes no claim to be the beacon of democracy and human rights in the Middle East, and my tax dollars do not go toward supplying Hamas with expensive, lethal weaponry. The same cannot be said for Israel. We as a nation are implicated in Israel’s actions to the tune of $7 million a day in taxpayer aid and unquestioning, unconditional support at the international level.

I only wish that the people who have been writing these letters would have actually attended the events. Then we could have had a chance for constructive dialogue.

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48 Responses to Students Mourn High Palestinian Death Toll in Gaza Strip

  1. Brendan Persinger Reply

    February 4, 2011 at 11:03 am

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  2. Arafat Reply

    February 4, 2011 at 5:26 am

    Jaret,

    You’re right. My comparing any aspect of Islam or Mohammed to Nazis or Hitler is too far-fetched for words.

    http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/where.html

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/01/hamas-imam-please-allah-kill-all-the-jews.html

    (The following video is about gays…not Jews):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qxjocm5fCc

    Jaret, for you not to openly admit that there are strong parallels between Islam and Nazism is to deny reality, and/or to lie about your true intentions. The parallels could not be stronger unless Ahmadinejad spoke german.

  3. Arafat Reply

    February 4, 2011 at 5:16 am

    Joshua,

    Like with dsforza I appreciate the civil, rational comment you’ve written in response to my comments.

    I’ll be the first to concede that I do not always take the time to express myself very clearly — a common mistake characteristic to these types of forums, no?

    That said, I will try to be open to softening my message and being more open to another perspective. Admittedly, my perspective is nowhere near the middle-ground.

    I also pappreciate your taking the time to read some of the links embedded within my comments.

    I will not respond to the specifics you raised in your post, but will continue to write in comments at UCSB’s site and over time I hope to make my positions clear such that any confusion you (or others) have about them will be clarified.

    Meanwhile let’s both try to keep and open mind. My thinking on these issues have changed radically over the years which suggest I do evolve my thinking as new information is digested. This does not mean I have analyzed the information correctly, or rationally, but it does suggest I am open to change.

    It’s my opinion the worst thing we can do is to become immutable in our thinking and to assume everything we know is correct and perfect. I know I come across that way, but believe me my views continue to evolve (for better or worse) and I hope all of us are open to reformulating our positions if new information suggest it is the rational thing to do.

  4. Arafat Reply

    February 4, 2011 at 5:05 am

    Dsforza,

    I’d encourage you to read the following links.

    Islam is unique among the world’s religions. Try keeping and open, curious mind and you may be surprised.

    Meanwhile, thank you for your comments. We have our difference, no doubt, but I generally look forward to your comments with great enthusiam. A voice of reason is always appreciated.

    http://www.meforum.org/2159/are-judaism-and-christianity-as-violent-as-islam

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Quran-Hate.htm

    Any thoughts you might have on these articles would be appreciated.

  5. Arafat Reply

    February 3, 2011 at 11:19 am

    Max, as you well know, Jaret is living a delusion (or he’s just a rabid anti-Semite), no different than his ilk did prior to the Holocaust.

    If Israel wanted to commit genocide you and I know they could do it in a blink of an eye, but the Jew’s moral code prohibits such an act.

    I know, I know, idiots like Jaret and Joshua are going to be ALL over the previous sentence citing act after act of Jew’s doing awful things. In their vacuous minds doing so will seem “smart” and will knock down my argument.

    But you and I know that within every society, religious group, or whatever there are people who will fall outside of that society’s moral compass.

    The difference, though, is that Islam’s moral compass is defined by hatred, and not by compassion. Mohammed was a rapist and a brutal leader and warrior. Jaret can’t seem to understand this distinction, that’s how smart he is.

    (Really what is going on here is that Jaret is probably a Muslim who is practicing the Islamic code of taqiyya as a tool to expand the ummah.)

    In any case, Max, you and I know that if Hamas had the bomb, and Israel did not, Hamas would have absolutely no hesitation in using it and killing another 6-7 million more Jews. Furthermore if they were to do this there would be celebrations throughout the Muslim world for that is their moral compass.

    Meanwhile if a Mossad agent were to murder the genocidal leader of Sudan, Omar al-Bashir, the Muslim world would condemn the act and call for the hanging of the Mossad agent. This is their way and it is Jaret’s way too.

    • Jaret Reply

      February 3, 2011 at 6:16 pm

      لا إله إلا الله ويسوع هو ابنه

      ;)

      • joshua Reply

        February 3, 2011 at 7:18 pm

        Ein Spaziergang durch die Irrenanstalt zeigt, dass der Glaube beweist gar nichts.

    • joshua Reply

      February 3, 2011 at 8:21 pm

      This is what is amazing to me, on the one hand, you accuse me and Jaret of being vicious anti-semites, asking for the blood of jews, demonizing anything and everything that they do. We apparently are only able to see their flaws, never their accomplishments, we condemn them without a second look. And in the same breath you proceed to do all of that and label 1.5 billion muslims as define by hatred, following a rapist and a warrior.

      Let me ask you this, can YOU see any similarities between the anti-semetic propaganda during the Holocaust and the way YOU speak about 1.5 billion people?

      and just so you know, most of the middle east IS part of the Semetic speaking people.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic

      And based on the way you talk about all muslims, maybe YOU are the anti-semite

      • Arafat Reply

        February 3, 2011 at 8:43 pm

        Joshua,

        The difference between my words and Goebbel’s words are the difference between lies and truths.

        Mohammed was a rapist and a warrior. That is true. Do you deny this?

        If I have not made myself clear, I apologize.

        Muslims are no different than I was when born. The difference lies in the way most of them are raised, socialized and indocrinated.

        I was not raised in a church where the pastors called for the death of all Jews and the conquest of all Chirstians, Buddhists and Hindus.

        I was not raised in a society that glorified death in the name of Allah.

        I did not go to a school where lies were told and the Koran was beaten into my head.

        Gotta go.

        But before I do what I have said about you and what’s his name is that you are not significantly different than the German people who bought into Goebbels lies about the Jews and who were beating the drum for their persecution. You two were the kind who would have happily participated in Krstalnicht. (sp?)

        • joshua Reply

          February 4, 2011 at 1:02 am

          You are the definition of a prejudiced man.

      • Dsforza Reply

        February 3, 2011 at 8:48 pm

        um ok, two things, first, if someone calls you an anti-Semite, your response should probably not be to write “There is no god but God and Jesus is his son” as a response (gotta love google translate).

        And Josh, a Semite may be more than just a Jew, but the term “anti-Semite historically has meant hatred toward the Jewish people. There are other terms to describe racism toward the other groups of the Middle East. The term to use against Arafat is Islamophobe, not anti-Semite.

        and Arafat, Islam is, like the other Abrahamic religions, a peace loving religion. And, like the other Abrahamic religions, their are those who distort it and use it for war. This does nt make Islam a hateful religion, it makes some people who happen to practice Islam hateful people. And don’t give me bible quotes showing they are not, because I can easily do the same for the Jewish and Christian bible.

        Oh, and stop comparing things to the Holocaust! The different between his comment and what people did in the Holocaust is simple, the Nazis murdered 11 million(not to mentions the tens of millions that died fighting the war). Arafat is not telling a “big lie” to mass murder the Muslim people, he is just being an ass.

        • Jaret Reply

          February 3, 2011 at 10:33 pm

          The Arabic was more about him calling me a closet muslim out to destroy the world, (Christians writing in Arabic??? the pigs are probably flying for a guy who’s ideas are a pleasant mix of David Horowitz and Jack Chick) I really don’t care about the name calling, just makes him look childish. Anyone who actually knows me knows that I’m not an anti-semite, secret muslim, or any other BS that got flung at me on this forum.

          I’m done. Arafat, Josh, anyone else reading this, if you would like to have an intelligent discussion about the issue Students For Justice In Palestine meets on Wed @ 7pm in the Middle Eastern Resource Center in the SRB. If you can form an argument without insulting the other person or comparing them to Hitler, you are welcome to attend.

          Keep it classy.

          Adios
          *oh snap, he’s illegal ;)*

  6. Arafat Reply

    February 3, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Jaret writes, “As for Jews won’t be safe if there is a Palestinian majority, it’s the same racism that you hear from white supremacists who want to end non european immigration to the US because the “brown hoards” will overrun us.”

    He must be the leftist teacher’s pet. Logic be damned, I’ll say what I say and with conviction regardless.

    What Jaret is really saying is that Europeans are beginning to understand that the leftist parties that have been in power — the multiculturalists liberals — have created a nightmare in which there is no clean way out.

    Jaret has a knack for rooting for evil men. Viva Hugo Chavez, eh Jaret? He’s Jaret’s kind of man; someone who answers to nobody and who has become filthy rich by nationalizing any and every American industry. In short, he’s a robbing, raping pillager just like Mohammed was.

    Here are examples of the “brown skinned” people the brown shirt, Jaret, is insinuating about:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-j32YAI3XU

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/10/uk-muslim-protesters-threaten-geert-wilders-well-have-his-head.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ

  7. Arafat Reply

    February 3, 2011 at 7:06 am

    Joshua, You’re rehashing the same points I have already answered twice already, and/or lying about what I wrote.

    1) I linked an article to obese Palestinians in answer to the claim that Israelis were starving Gazans. You can’t have it both ways. You cannot be obese and be starving at the same time.
    2) I never wrote “tens of thousands of rockets” as you claim. Fine me where I (or anyone else) wrote that. It is widely accepted –even by Palestinian propoganda machines like Amnesty International– that 6,000 rockets were firced into Israel.
    3) Yes, few Israelis were killed by these 6,000 rockets, but I’d love to see how the multi-culturalist, scoial justice types at UCSB would react if 6,000 rockets were fired in and around their campus. (I understand the analogy is flawed from your perspective because you think Israel belongs to the Palestinians. Problem is Israel was created legally whether you like it or not, and any country –even one made up mostly of Jews– has the right to prtect its citizens.
    4) As to your gross exaggerations about the damages within Gaza I also have answered these lies in previous posts. Here is one video and one article dismissing these lies used to delegtimize Israel:

    http://www.spme.net/cgi-bin/articles.cgi?ID=6889

    http://www.spme.net/cgi-bin/articles.cgi?ID=7508

    Joshua, now I understand how it makes you (and your amigos) feel cool to hate israel and to embrace the poor Palestinians, but that does not make it right; it just makes you popular with a bunch of losers. Here is an article which describes exactly what you’re really doing:

    frontpagemag.com/2010/06/09/confronting-europes-war-on-the-jews/

    All you’re doing Josh is setting the stage for one more — in an endless litany — holocaust of the Jews. You’re helping delegitimize Israel and its people because mankind needs to have a scapegoat to feel “complete” and Jews have always been that scapegoat. Hope you are proud of the role you’re playing in this macabe, dispicable end-game.

    • joshua Reply

      February 3, 2011 at 8:11 pm

      To your first point, I would ask you to read this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7806209/Dispatch-Just-how-hungry-is-Gaza.html

      http://makkah.wordpress.com/2011/01/05/wikileaks-israel-told-us-of-intention-to-starve-gazans/

      I will concede your point, Israel is not starving Gaza literally, but it is insisting of a policy of collective punishment, bringing economic activity to the “brink of collapse”.

      To your second point, I quote “Thats why Gaza is under blockade. Their leaders call for the death of “the zionist state” and will never recognize their neighbors. they hurl tens of thousands of rockets at Israel, send suicide bombers to blow up pizza parlors and clubs, and train their children to hate Israel and how to use an AK-47.” My comment was towards Dsforza, not you.

      Your third point befuddles me. Im assuming you are responding to my comment regarding the blockade in gaza and its legitimacy. First, whether or not Israel was founded through legitimate means, does not affect the legitimacy of the blockade. Second, I question the actions and the events that transpired in the creation of the state of Israel.
      I am of the opinion, that regardless of how it was done, it would be just as evil to kick out Israeli citizens to make room for a Palestinian state. I am in favor of a two state solution, and while I regard the original grounds for the creation of the State of Israel highly questionable, I would rather see coexistence in a 2 state solution.

      Your fourth point is rather perplexing, first because I have no idea to what claims you are referring to, and 2 because at least from what I have said so far, the links you provide are a total non sequitur.

      Lastly, dude why do you paint me as some evil bastard that hates Israel. Why do I have to be anti-semetic for merely being critical of it, its policies or its actions. You assume I have no empathy for them, no common ground, that I am somehow unable to see the humans on the other side. I really do resent that, and honestly if I where you, I would examine what I say. Can you feel empathy towards the position of the Palestinians? can you see the human on the other side?

      Regarding your last link, I am no expert on military dictatorships around the world, and I would not be the one to equate what is going on in Israel with a military dictatorship. But, if you told me about a similar situation in X places, my answer would be consistent, I would decry the conditions and I would be just as willing to be an advocate for those people as well. And perhaps the reason that Israel and its conflict with the palestinians is always in the news, is not because there is some sort of bias or some sort anti-semetic plot. I believe the reason the region receives so much attention is because in recent memory the area has gone through so much violence over its short history, violence that still continues to this day.

      And again, your last argument is a rather weak attempt at connecting international criticisms of a Jewish state to the propaganda that took place before the Holocaust.

  8. Dsforza Reply

    February 2, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    When people think of Israel, they think of conflict. They don’t think about how they have more doctors, lawyers, Nobel prize winners than any other nations.

    they don’t think about how they brought us modern day computer processors, medical technology and green technology.

    They don’t think about how Israel had fully functional hospitals up in Haiti within two days of the storm despite being on the other side of the world, or how Israel has brought drip irrigation to Africa so countries can transform their deserts into farmland.

    They forget that Israel is a modern nation where people go to work, go to school, party at night and rest on the weekends.

    They forget that Israel is the only country in the middle east that allows men and women of all religions and cultures to vote, and has Arab and Jewish members in the Knesset.

    They forget that Israel allows gays in the military, and has for over a decade, that gay couples are granted full benefits in the public and private sector, and that they recognize common law gay marriage as their Arab neighbors outlaw and even kill people for being gay.

    They forget that when the world turned away the Jews, the Rwandans, the Ethiopians and the Sudanese, Israel let them in to save them from tyranny.

    They forget that like all people, they hope to one day live in peace without having to worry that they have 15 seconds to run to the nearest bomb shelter because their neighbor is indiscriminately firing rockets into civilian areas, not military targets.
    They forget that Israelis want to go to a club, enter a bus or walk around the town without worry about a suicide bomber ending their life.

    They forget that Israel wants to have peace, but peace takes two, and its hard to have peace when the other side denies your existence, refuses to recognize the states purpose of existence, and calls the entire country, not just Gaza and the West Bank, occupied territory.

    All people think of when they think of Israel is conflict. Israel is so much more than that.

    • joshua Reply

      February 3, 2011 at 12:46 am

      Mr. Dsforza , we are not arguing that Israel has failed to do any good in the world. What we are arguing is that in spite of its good deeds, Israel seems to be responsible for the oppression of a people. It engages in certain practices that clearly violate the human rights of that people, and it seems to have developed a system that starves a people, settles its lands and de-legitimizes their right to social contract with Israel or hampers the creation of its own state, all in the name of security for its people, in the name of religion, in the name of their heritage.

      • James Fraser Reply

        February 3, 2011 at 9:09 am

        Joshua;
        Go read about “Black September”, you have no idea where the Palestinean conflict started. I’ll give you a hint: With their own Arab brothers. You are missing the core of the information. You and the author of this horribly researched article have yet to read more factual history.

      • Max Reply

        February 3, 2011 at 9:12 am

        Stop writing things in public forums that you either know are wrong or are simply ignorant about. There is NO evidence that Israel is currently starving anyone. There is ample evidence that 100s of tons of aid are transported into Gaza by Israel every week. If people in Gaza are hungry it is because Hamas is pocketing all the food sent to Gaza for free and selling it to make a profit. From the recent Al-Jazeera leaks regarding the peace negotiations, you can see that Israel is now willing to make more concessions for peace than it has at any point since its inception. Israeli leaders rightly refuse to turn Israel into a state with a Palestinian majority because the point of establishing a state of Israel was for there to be a place where Jews could be safe. At this particular moment there is no reason to believe Jews would be safe in Israel with a majority Palestinian government in power, especially given that Hamas is their most popular political party.

        • Jaret Reply

          February 3, 2011 at 9:29 am

          Sorry Max but it takes a special kind of loyalty to turn facts around with such skill.

          The Al-Jazeera links show that the PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY was willing to make ridiculous concessions to Israel and they got turned down. They were willing to give up East Jerusalem and the right of return for all Palestinian refugees, but Israel said no. The Palestinian papers show 2 things, 1 that the PA does not really have the Palestinian people’s best interest in mind, and 2 that Israel can be offered the world, but it doesn’t really want peace.

          As for Jews won’t be safe if there is a Palestinian majority, it’s the same racism that you hear from white supremacists who want to end non european immigration to the US because the “brown hoards” will overrun us.

          • Max Reply

            February 3, 2011 at 11:09 am

            Have you read the Hamas charter? It says the trees in Israel will call out to the Muslims “There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.” I wish it was a joke but it is true. You can say oh that charter is old it is not being used anymore but has any member of the Hamas leadership openly condemned that section of the charter and called for it to be changed? I don’t think Israelis have any choice but to take Hamas at its word when it says that it seeks the destruction of the State of Israel.

            What the Al-Jazeera links show is that Israel was discussing giving around 93% of the West Bank to the Palestinians, swapping Israeli land for the the remaining 7%, and handing over the Palestinian areas of East Jerusalem. The talks hit a snag because of a couple of large settlements in the West Bank which will be very difficult for the Israeli government to evacuate. Al Jazeera can present the facts any way it wants, the fact is that Israel was willing to give up more land in the West Bank than at any point in history.

          • Dsforza Reply

            February 4, 2011 at 3:19 pm

            Jaret, to believe that a Jewish state with a Jewish majority is not necessary is to ignore thousands of years of history and to ignore the current situation on the ground. The Holocaust was just a climax to the long history of the persecution of my people. Even as the nations around Israel attack it and as the terrorist in the Palestinian ranks hurl rockets to make Jews live in constant fear, we as a people have never been safer. To deny the fact that Jews need a Jewish state to live freely as Jews is when I can correctly critisize someone as being Anti Semitic.

            The Palestinians teach their children to hate the Jews. Just go on youtube and watch the shows Palestinians show their children. Their leader, Abbas, wrote his college dissertation on how the Holocaust was a lie perpetrated by the Jews to get the state of Israel. AND HE IS THE MODERATE! Their leaders deny the fact that the Jews have any connection to the land. They continue the blood libel lie that Jews drink the blood of their children.

            You call the creation of Israel the Nakba (the catastrophe) but you ignore the fact that the Palestinians were offered a state and they rejected it, and then sided with the Arab armies that invaded Israel upon it announcing its independence (those who did not were granted full citizenship rights to Israel and have their own political parties and members of the Knesset.) You further ignore the mass emigration of Jews from Middle Eastern nations to escape persecution.

            A Jewish State is necessary because We were enslaved by the Egyptians, enslaved and massacred by the Romans, made third class citizens by the Europeans, eventually expelled from some European nations altogether, watched the Russian pogroms burn our shops and finally watched a man take away our citizenship and then try to take away our humanity in the holocaust. Israel is not perfect, but if the world turns against the Jews again, we need a state of our own to defend ourselves. That is why a Jewish State is necessary, and that is why a peaceful loving Palestinian state is necessary. It is not the same racism to say the Jews need their own state, its a recognition of the history of the Jewish people and our dream to be free.

  9. Max Reply

    February 2, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    No one asked you to ignore the situation in Gaza or the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Almost every article about Israel is about the conflict so it makes people think that is the only thing going on there. Its important to point out that there are many other things going on there, some of which are very positive.

  10. Elelreth Reply

    February 2, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Wow, I came here seeing 10+ comments expecting intelligent conversation, but instead find multi-posts by the same guy who trolls every goddamn Israeli article. Get over yourself, Arafat.

    By the way, I read your http://old.nationalreview.com/bayefsky/bayefsky200506060928.asp link. Great job on citing NRO, the batshit right-wing website that I accidentally gave link traffic to. But to not attack the messenger, how about the message? Are you really questioning Amnesty International because they decried the conditions of Guantanamo Bay? This shit writes itself, I tell you.

    Honestly, GTFO dailynexus and get yourself to freepland (or stormfront, if you’re that deranged). Leave reasonable conversation to the sane adults around here.

    To address a few of your points (though I really shouldn’t feed a troll):
    1. The growth of the Palestinian population is a good thing (really — most populations seem to have an upward trend), it’s too bad you didn’t mention the land-grabs by Israel which have come under fire numerous times (but I guess it doesn’t matter to you since the lamestream media is full of shit?)
    2. How dare people in Gaza worry about how big their butts are! Seriously, shouldn’t they be out there trying to catch a stray bullet from the greatest and latest US-taxpayer-funded ammunition? I mean, why aren’t they posting about their misery, seriously? WTF is wrong with these brown people?

    • Arafat Reply

      February 2, 2011 at 3:17 pm

      Elereth,

      You’re silly little twit. Just kidding.

      You write, “The growth of the Palestinian population is a good thing…”

      But you left out the context in which I mentioned this fact. The context was as follows.

      Jaret (or one of those pea-brains) wrote that Israel was committing a slow form of genocide. So I observed that Israel must be pretty bad at genocide because usually when a people commit genocide against a people the victims population does not increase.

      I’ll give you two examples of this. In 1918 Muslims committed genocide against the Christian Armenians in Turkey. They killed 1.5 million Armenians. The Armenian population all but disappeared in Turkey.

      Another example is Darfur. Muslims committed genocide against non-Muslims in Darfur. Now the non-Muslim population in Darfur is much. Much, much smaller. Not larger as the Palestinian population is in Gaza, the West Bank and in Israel.

      Got it? If this is too complicated to follow let me know and I’ll try to simplify it for you.
      ********************

      You then write, “How dare people in Gaza worry about how big their butts are!”

      But, once again you left out the context. You don’t happen to have ADHD? Maybe you should take your Ritalin more regularly. I just mention this because I really do like you.

      The context was…

      Someone wrote (this is a typical Muslim apologist lie) that Gazans were being starved to death.

      So, I thought, why would they write that when I haven’t seen any pictures of starving Gazans? I have seen lots of pictures of starving Darfur children because the Muslims are have committed genocide there and as part of that they have starved little babies to death. But, I digress.

      I responded to the Muslim apologist lie about starving Gazans by linking an article which showed the obesity rate in Gaza, and the fact that it is quite high. Maybe you should become rich being a cardiologist in Gaza? I mention this because I like you so much.

      • joshua Reply

        February 3, 2011 at 12:57 am

        I think arafat fails to see the problem the growth of the Palestinian population actually poses for Israel.

        for one, what does Israel plan to do with the land and the Palestinian population that is actually out-growing Israel’s population.

        If a 2 state solution is now out of the question, as it seem to be the case now with a right wing government that insists Gaza and the west bank to be god given.
        Then, there is no way for those Palestinians now living in extreme poverty to be able to form some sort of unstable government, next to Israel.

        If that is the case, then I see only these options for Israel. 1) mass exile of Palestinian people aka trail of tears in the middle east.
        2) continued concentration of Palestinians in small amounts of land. aka apartheid.
        3) integration of Palestinians into Israel, out of which will come one of two things:
        a) Palestinians are given equal rights, and they become new majority in government.
        b) Palestinians are given status as second class citizens, or worse.

        Tell me, what exactly does Israel plan to do with the Palestinian people? Because, genocide might actually be option number 4.

  11. Arafat Reply

    February 2, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Eric, this article is for you:

    http://www.raymondibrahim.com/8348/muslims-project-islam-worst-traits-onto-israel

    And I’m throwing in a dividend as well just because I like you:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo

  12. Eric Naisbeth Reply

    February 2, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Israeli soldiers admit to deliberate killing of Gaza civilians
    The Times of London, March 20, 2009

    “That’s the beauty of Gaza. You see a man walking, he doesn’t have to have a weapon, and you can shoot him,” one soldier told Danny Zamir, the head of the Rabin pre-military academy, who asked him why a company commander ordered an elderly woman to be shot.”

    “When we entered a house, we were supposed to bust down the door and start shooting inside and just go up storey by storey… I call that murder. Each storey, if we identify a person, we shoot them. I asked myself – how is this reasonable?”

    “Another disturbing element reported by the soldiers was the role of military rabbis in distributing booklets that framed the fighting as a religious war. “All these articles had a clear message: we are the Jewish people, we have come to the land by miraculous means, and now we have to fight to remove the Gentiles who are getting in our way and preventing us from occupying the Holy Land… a great many soldiers had a feeling throughout this operation of a religious war,” said one soldier.”

  13. nicole Reply

    February 2, 2011 at 10:52 am

    This argument has been tried over and over. But what the Palestinian side seems to ignore is that while Israelis may commit immoral or internationally questionable acts against Palestinians, there are severe consequences for those who do. The Israeli government does not support unnecessary violence. Let’s be honest here: why would a country in such a sensitive situation purposefully ignite fire where there was none to start with? It makes no sense that Israel would openly demonstrate to the world that they are as hostile as many claim.

    And when the claims start arising that Israel is such an offensive state, maybe it is not so much that Israel is. Maybe the Palestinians aren’t setting up quite the reputation for themselves. “A poll conducted by Islamic University of 1,000 youngsters between the ages of 9 and 16 showed that 49 percent said they had participated in anti-Israel violence and 73 percent expressed a desire to die martyrs.” So who is the victim now?

    What really bothers me about this whole situation is that many of the Palestinian arguments make themselves sound so innocent and victimized. For me, it is only reasonable to assume that the Palestinian deaths are largely constituted of people who are attempting to hurt Israel, not just innocent civilians. At least Israel acknowledges its mistakes whereas many Palestinians resort to naming themselves the ultimate helpless victims who did nothing wrong. Take a look at the last 120 years: Palestine has done more than enough.

  14. Arafat Reply

    February 2, 2011 at 7:12 am

    Let me close by saying I am neither pro-Israeli nor anti-Palestinian. I’m an “independent” and I make my mind up based on the merits of the issue. When I study the situation in the Middle East and study the history of Islam and if Islamic anti-semtisim going all the way back to Mohammed (who hated Jews) I then decide who to support and who not to support.

    When I see the following videos it’s simple and obvious which side to support.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo

    As opposed to:

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/01/hamas-in-their-own-voices.html

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/07/hey-kids-come-watch-a-dramatization-of-your-moms-death-by-suicide-bombing.html

  15. Arafat Reply

    February 2, 2011 at 7:02 am

    Jaret bemoans the hovel like conditions in Gaza. It must be tough not knowing which restaurant to go to on any given night.

    http://travel.mapsofworld.com/palestine/gaza-tours/restaurants-in-gaza.html

    Or to go to the country club instead.

    http://www.rootsclub.ps/movie.php

    Maybe there is someplace to eat at the high end shopping Mall?

    http://frontpagemag.com/2010/07/23/the-gaza-strip-mall/

    According to the following article Gazans big problem is their big butts, i.e., high blood pressure caused by over-eating. Jaret, this is something you could get all high and mighty about while writing another editorial about the fat Gazans!

    http://vladtepesblog.com/?p=21265

    • joshua Reply

      February 3, 2011 at 1:06 am

      I love your logic.

      If you can find a nice restaurant in gaza, then its people must not be suffering.

      If they have a country club, then they must not be staving.

      If they have high blood pressure, then they are obviously overeating.

  16. Arafat Reply

    February 2, 2011 at 6:55 am

    Jaret is apparently drawn to the worst possible take about Israel as is possible. He’s like a moth to a flame except the consequences of Jaret’s words do not impact him (other than through Karma) but do impact Israelis. In that sense he is just one more pawn in the propoganda war against Israel and he will be like the German citizens who fanned the flames of Hitler’s hatred. Jaret, how do you live with yourself?

    Anyway, Jaret, here is a different take on how many people were killed during Operation Cast Lead:

    http://www.spme.net/cgi-bin/articles.cgi?ID=7508

  17. Arafat Reply

    February 2, 2011 at 6:51 am

    Wow! Jaret wins the Mr. Naivety contest. He really does believe everything he reads (as long as it corroborates his prejudicial opinions.)

    Jaret, is this the Amnesty International you hold in such high esteem?

    http://old.nationalreview.com/bayefsky/bayefsky200506060928.asp

    Or is this the Amnesty International you think is God’s gift to the needy?

    http://www.globallawforum.org/ViewBlog.aspx?ArticleId=49

  18. Arafat Reply

    February 2, 2011 at 6:45 am

    Jaret writes, “It would be like telling indigenous people in 19th century America that it’s OK that they are being ethnically cleansed because Thomas Edison, an American, invented the lightbulb.”

    Jaret, in case you did not know the Palestinian population growth far exceeds the wrold averages and this is true in Israel, the West Bank and Gaza too.

    Do you have any idea what you’re writing about or do you just make stuff up on the fly?

    • Ken Reply

      February 2, 2011 at 10:23 am

      Arafat, must you be so blind to suffering? So, evidently you’re OK with night-time raids on families, bulldozing homes and businesses, preventing aid and erecting double razor wire fences to keep people and families caged up like animals as long as the net population increases? You seem to be pretty cool with the idea that some (very ancient) cultures in the middle east are not to be allowed basic human rights, and in your shrill ad hominem attacks on Jared, you do no favors to the Zionist cause. Have a heart, dude…Jews are not the only people on the planet.

      • Jaret Reply

        February 2, 2011 at 10:35 am

        Ken, I appreciate the support, but it’s best not to feed the forum troll.

        • Arafat Reply

          February 2, 2011 at 11:20 am

          Caged up like animals?

          Ken your hyperbole makes for quite an image even if it has nothing whatsoever to do with reality.

          Here is the cage you’re lying about:

          frontpagemag.com/2010/07/23/the-gaza-strip-mall/

        • Arafat Reply

          February 2, 2011 at 11:21 am

          Of course Jaret won’t respond to me, because he knows he can’t.

          When the facts do not support your side then it’s always easiest to run away and hide, eh Jaret?

          • Jaret Reply

            February 2, 2011 at 12:16 pm

            Facts?

            Sorry dude, I won’t waste time on a long explanation of my position with credible citations because it seems like you will simply quote something from David Horowitz or some neocon think tank and then insult me.

            Frankly, it’s just not worth my time. So go on with the ad hominem attacks and quoting questionable opinion pieces like sacred scripture. I promise you won’t hurt my feelings or impress anyone.

            • Arafat Reply

              February 2, 2011 at 12:32 pm

              That’s terrific Jaret.

              So as I understand your position it’s OK for you to rely on Amnesty International to support your position, but I do not have the right to use what you call “neocon” sources to support my position. That’s rich, Jaret. It must be nice to rely on Amnesty International as if it’s some sacred scripture.

              This is Jaret’s holy grail and source material for his article and opinions. It must be nice to be so cocksure of one’s self even when relying on biased and seriously flawed BS.

              http://www.globallawforum.org/ViewBlog.aspx?ArticleId=49

              Time for you to go into hiding, Jaret. Like I said if the facts don’t cut it, and your position is full of holes, then attack the messenger or hide. Whatever you do, don’t debate someone who can so easily punch holes in your seriously flawed thinking.

  19. Dsforza Reply

    February 2, 2011 at 5:41 am

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-leader-in-gaza-vows-group-will-never-recognize-israel-1.330593

    Thats why Gaza is under blockade. Their leaders call for the death of “the zionist state” and will never recognize their neighbors. they hurl tens of thousands of rockets at Israel, send suicide bombers to blow up pizza parlors and clubs, and train their children to hate Israel and how to use an AK-47.

    Israel has made mistakes, has been heavy handed, but their blockade is necessary for their own survival.

    Hopefully the people of Gaza throw out their leaders like those in Tunisia. Until then, Israel has every right to defend themselves from a hostile nation.

    • Jaret Reply

      February 2, 2011 at 10:44 am

      Interesting David, because before Cast Lead, Hamas said they would recognize Israel within the 67 borders.
      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3249568,00.html
      Either way, Hamas is in no position to follow through on any of it’s machismo talk. Training kids to use guns and hate? Maybe so, but one could say the same thing about the settlers.

      The blockade is absolutely not necessary for Israel’s survival, it’s collective punishment. The BBC published a partial list of items banned in Gaza. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8654337.stm
      Canned meat is allowed in but not canned fruit. Mineral water is allowed in but no fruit juice. Tahnini but not jam. Yes, Hamas will violently overthrow the “Zionist Regime” with some apple juice and strawberry jam. It’s a good thing that that the righteous governments of Egypt and Israel keep these dangerous military items out of Gaza. Give me a break.

    • Jaret Reply

      February 2, 2011 at 12:09 pm

      I think the forum ate my first response,

      Anyways, that’s interesting David because before Operation Cast Lead Hamas said it would recognize Israel within the pre-67 borders.

      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3249568,00.html

      Either way, Hamas is in no position to follow through on any of its machismo talk. Training kids to hate and use guns? One could say the same about the settlers in the West Bank.

      The blockade is absolutely not necessary for Israel’s survival. It’s collective punishment. The BBC published an article with a partial list of items not allowed into Gaza.
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8654337.stm
      Canned meat is allowed but not canned fruit. Tahini is allowed but not jam. Mineral water but no fruit juice. Yes, Hamas will violently overthrow the “Zionist Regime” with some apple juice and strawberry jam. It’s a good thing that the righteous governments of Egypt and Israel keep these dangerous military items out of Gaza. Give me a break.

      • Dsforza Reply

        February 3, 2011 at 4:47 am

        When it comes to banning certain foods Israel was absolutely and utterly wrong and has corrected course.
        http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/abbas-to-obama-i-m-against-lifting-the-gaza-naval-blockade-1.295771

        As Abbas has said, the purpose of the Blockade is to delegitimize Hamas and the Hamas government. If Hamas can deliver more aid and more goods they solidify their support with the people. Israel and the PA hope that the blockade would reduce support for Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

        Hamas is a hostile government. Israel has the right to treat the region as hostile. As a result they are allowed to prevent Hamas from obtaining more weapons and materials for weapons. If the people of Gaza want to live freely, then they need to get rid of Hamas, or Hamas needs to change their position.

        As for the article you posted stated that Hamas would consider recognizing Israel, you only have to look at the Hamas charter to see that they absolutely refuse to make peace with Israel. As it states at the end of the article I have posted, some Hamas officials have considered temporarily recognizing Israel and taking the Gaza Strip and the West Bank as a first step to retaking the entire country.

      • James Fraser Reply

        February 3, 2011 at 9:19 am

        Let me show you what the anti-Israeli propaganda doesn’t want the world to see. Click on the link. It’s from Arabic News, and yes that’s Gaza.

        http://paltoday.ps/arabic/News-64161.html

    • joshua Reply

      February 3, 2011 at 1:24 am

      Really? tens of thousands of rockets? how many suicide bombers did they send? Israel has made no mistakes. and the blockade is necesary for their own survival. really?

      So, they have to throw out their leaders, and that will end the blockade? a blockade which you consider to be legitimate I suppose.

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