The relationship between the Jewish and Muslim communities is often portrayed as one of enmity and opposition. In reality, this is just not true. Both Jews and Muslims are adherents of monotheist, Abrahamic religions that have a great deal in common. Perhaps more importantly, American Jews and Muslims share the experience of living as minority communities within the larger fabric of American society. For many of our ancestors, the freedom of religion and expression afforded by the U.S. Constitution played a pivotal role in informing their decision to emigrate to our great country.
David Horowitz has claimed that opposition to A.S. funding for his upcoming speech is rooted in a desire to silence him and curtail his right to free speech. The truth is that we merely oppose the use of student funds to subsidize bigotry and prejudice. Students must be exposed to a wide variety of intellectual perspectives on all issues, but Horowitz goes far beyond providing an alternative perspective. We and many other students on this campus are deeply offended by his claim that “there is a movement for a second Holocaust of the Jews that is being supported [at UCSB] by the Muslim Student Association.” The UCSB MSA is an incredibly valuable member of our campus, has been involved in numerous interfaith dialogues and provides a cultural and religious home to a large segment of the UCSB Muslim community. The accusation that the UCSB MSA has ties to terrorism is not only baseless and inaccurate, but it also propagates stereotypes and misconceptions that far too often have led to deadly consequences. We stand unified with our Muslim friends in repudiating these grossly inaccurate stereotypes and call upon the UCSB community at large to stand by their fellow students.
Though we are deeply offended by Horowitz’s accusations against the UCSB MSA, we are not protesting the “Infantile Disorders” event. We are not interfering with the event and we are not associated with anyone who attempts to interfere. Rather, we are encouraging the UCSB community to join the UCSB Respect Coalition at “The Alternative: Empowering Our Voices” (Today at 8 p.m., Embarcadero Hall). The event will provide a safe space for students to speak openly about discrimination, hate speech and how to foster a more inclusive campus community. Our hope is that the event gives UCSB students a real chance to express how they are a part of the beautiful, multiethnic, interfaith American mosaic. We strongly encourage any student who is interested in constructive dialogue to attend.
Signed,
Santa Barbara Hillel
UCSB American Students for Israel
UCSB Students for Justice in Palestine
UCSB Muslim Student Association
Subtext: Santa Barbara Hillel is a Jewish community center at UC Santa Barbara. American Students for Israel is a bipartisan student group dedicated to political advocacy. Students for Justice in Palestine is a human rights and social justice organization unaffiliated with any one race, ethnicity or religion. Muslim Student Association is an apolitical, autonomous faith-based UCSB campus organization that is open to the public.
Hey, let’s all pretend the sun rises in the west too! How dare David Horowitz be honest. Doesn’t he know that being politically correct is more important than being honest? The nerve of that man for taking the First Amendment seriously. Doesn’t he know the First Amendment was just window dressing and not something to actually act upon? Yeah, and furthermore, in the spirit of the sun really does rise in the west: Islam IS a tolerant and compassionate religion that makes no distinctions between Muslims and non-Muslims. It’s really just Islamaphobes like Horowitz who claim otherwise. Oh yeah, and… Read more »
I am so glad you won’t be at the alternative event :)
it’s much more tolerant to accuse the victim of being a “terrorist” so that you can continue to victimize them (i.e. Palestine). This type of propaganda is deplorable and smear and fear tactics don’t help to further humanitarian causes or build bridges. David Horowitz and his ilk are high functioning bullies.
Except for the part where the, “Victims,” actually ARE engaging in terrorist activities and using children as human shields to maximize body counts and manipulate sympathies of those who aren’t willing to investigate an issue beyond shocking photographs, to say nothing of the populace they brainwash, sometimes going so far as to use translations of Nazi schoolbooks to teach their children to read. Books like, “Never Trust a Snake in the Grass or a Jew on his Word.” I seem to remember the original Israeli Charter calling for the creation of two states: one making up most of modern day… Read more »
Dude even David Horowitz acknowledges that most Muslims have nothing to do with “Islamofascism”. If you have evidence that the UCSB MSA has ties to terrorism please present it. I doubt you’ll find it though, seeing as the UCSB MSA isn’t even affiliated with MSA National:
http://www.msanational.org/affiliate/list
Notice that UCSB is not on that list.
and yet, the national msa publicizes their events
curious
Several times in recent years, MSA UCSB has participated in MSA National’s annual “Ramadan Fast-a-Thon” along with as many as 280 fellow chapters of MSA. The purpose of this event is to raise, through temporary fasting, public awareness of hunger and homelessness in Muslim communities. Recent endorsers of the Fast-a-Thon include: Sheikh Muhammad Nur Abdullah, former President of the Islamic Society of North America and currently a member of the Shari’a Scholars Association of North America Sheikh Abdullah Idris Ali, former President of the Islamic Society of North America and currently a Board of Advisors member of the American Muslim… Read more »
This reminds me a little bit of the Saudi -> al Qaeda connection.
The Saudis claim they are against radical extremists like al Qaeda while, at the same time, doling out hundreds of million annually to fund Wahhabi mosques.
I’m sure UCSB’s MSA are opposed too all those extremist MSA members you’re referring to. sarc/off
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/blog/244/the-muslim-students-association-and-the-jihad-network/
I always find it so darn touching when Jews and Jewish organizations stand in solidarity with Students for Justice is Palestine and the MSA. I suppose in a different day, in a different time, and in a different place Jews just like these acted similarly in the 1930s in Germany.
http://frontpagemag.com/2009/12/08/the-persistence-of-islamic-anti-semitism-by-robert-spencer/
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html
Donna, you’re right and here are the victimizers:
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/05/arab-apartheid-ben-dror-yemini-must.html
***** ****** ******
Donna writes, high functioning bullies…”
Like these fellas, or are these examples of low funtioing bullies?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/01/people-picture-muslims-with-a-quran-in-one-hand-and-a-sword-in-the-other.html
Thank you for standing up to this bigot Hillel! Your actions are praiseworthy. :)
Lizette, Could you state specifically why you think Horowitz is a bigot? Yes, he says Islam is a religion of hatred, but is that bigotry or truthfulness? Have you read the Qur’an? Have you read the hadiths which describe in detail how Mohammed was cruel, misogynistic, a killer, rapist, enslaver and viscous conqueror? These are not lies or bigotry, they are the truth. If the truth becomes anathema on college campuses and more broadly throughout America then what differentiates us from the Islamic countries where truth is punishable as well? The following Qur’anic verse and hadiths are not made up,… Read more »
David Horowitz makes my horny go away.
its so nice that the jews of ucsb wish to embrace their dhimmitude
i dont like horowitz, but most of his facts are not innacurate
the msa was founded by the muslim brotherhood
up and down the uc system, the msa has sponsored anti israel and anti semetic speakers and events
you cannot deny this
will the msa of ucsb condemn the actions of the other msa groups?
if not…why?
ill tell you why…because like all good practicing muslims, they have no problem with lying…for it is a positive commandment…callled al taquiah
one is allowed to lie to the infidel
Walt, I am the Vice President of Political Affairs for American Students for Israel, and I have to tell you that with regards to UCSB MSA, you’re misinformed. The MSA at UCSB is entirely non-political, they’ve taken part in a number of interfaith dialogues, and have been strong allies to the Jewish community. There are MSAs on other campuses that fit a more troubling profile, but those organizations have no ties with the UCSB chapter. Your comment suggests that all Muslims think alike, and are somehow conspiring together to attack us. A very similar accusation has been hurled at Jews… Read more »
daniel,
http://www.msanational.org/events/sbcc-msa-ucsb-msa-joint-potluck-celebration-end-year
http://www.oocities.org/ucsbmsa/aboutMSA.html
they are in no way affiliated with the national msa?
i will ask you once again…has the ucsb msa disavowed and/or condemned the actions of the msa’s from other uc campuses when it comes to demonizing israel and jews
are they no longer affiliated with msa west, which recently sponsored a seminar which had, rabid jew hater, Amir Adel Malik Ali, as one of the speakers?
come on…you are either naive, dumb, or so engulfed with western guilt, that you have blinded yourself to this groups true motives.
Following that logic, if a student group formed a KKK chapter at UCSB, but didn’t engage in actual behaviors that Melnick finds abhorent, then he’d embrace that organization?
If UCSB MSA members don’t wish to be tarred with MSA affiliation, then they should disassociate themselves and form a group that accurately reflects their values. Maybe the kitten-kuddler-klub?
In the interim, people of conscience have a duty to condemn MSA local chapters for their local and national organization’s rancid record of Islamo-supremacism and bigotry.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7403
Daniel, When does idealism become stupidity? Your ideals are enviable. Who wouldn’t be for the hope that everyone can get along in peace, but the problem with your ideals is it ignores the core tenets of Islam. And one of Islam’s most basic/core tenets is to fight all non-Muslims until they are all subservient and Islam rules over all. Now you many dismiss this as the rantings of a mad bigot but that does not explain why Muslims all over the world say these very things (as they quote the Qur’an) during their murderous rampages. That does not explain the… Read more »
Muslims of conscience do exist– but not in the MSA.
Secular Muslims (interested in reform) are unsupported in academia precisely because Leftists fear being (falsely) accused of bigotry by MSA jihadists, more than they fear being (accurately) identified as moral cowards for abandoning the defense of human rights.
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis
Bravo Secular Muslim. You are a courageous and intelligent person. Good luck!
Every bible, every quran may say things that cna be taken out of context. The qran recognises chrisitans and jews and sabiasn as paople fo the faith who shoudl be honoured and respected. it says int eh quran for those of you who have faith, muslims, christians, jews or sabians etc and do good you have nothing to worry about’. The problem today is entirely political, post colonialisation has created dictators and oppression and a reaction to the oppression. Israel is nto inncoent it has killed tens of thousands of palestinians, murdered and slaughtered them without a care. Sabra shatilla,… Read more »
Khadeja,
It is you who is taking the Qur’an out of context and twisting it into something that it IS NOT. The Qur’an is unequivacable in its hatred of Jews, Christians, and all non-Muslims as seen here:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/009-friends-with-christians-jews.htm
walt seems like a hoodwinked Israel-whiped bootlicker.
Fascinating and scholarly analysis. Tell us more.
Horowitz is a demonstrable ANTI-supremacist. For a more scholarly discussion of his anti-racist views, see “Hating Whitey: And Other Progressive Causes” @ http://www.amazon.com/Hating-Whitey-Other-Progressive-Causes/dp/189062621X But this smear campaign is a tried and true tactic of the Left: intellectually bankrupt as it is, it hopes to silence its critics, rather than dealing with them on the level of ideas. They can’t answer us, so they hope to discredit us. Leftists, as well as apologists for Islamo-supremacism, label their opponents “hatemongers” and “bigots,” hoping thereby to make people of good will turn away from their message. In reality, Horowitz is dedicated to the… Read more »
Arguably good-intenetioned people like Daniel Melnick are like those who supported Neville Chamberlain not so many years ago. Daniel, I do not mean to hurt your feelings so much as to offer a different – probably more grounded and real – perspective on what you and your friends are supporting. I also hope to make skeptics more open to hear and to study what Horowitz is saying. Just because the NYT labels Horowitz a bigot does not make it the gospel. Read about Islam, take notes on what Horowitz says and check the facts. There is not question whatsoever that… Read more »
What a racist bit of blog. Absolute rubbish. Muslism and jews have historically have had no problems, its only with the creation fo islarale on palestinian land which made millions homeless that the problens arose. Jewish communities historically have been inward looking, and so have had difficulty cos of that. Whats happenign in israelm we can only blame, Germans, Eurpoe and UK balfour, whom because of the european holocasut, created a generation fo h=jewish victims, who have now goen from victims to oppressors in israel, oppressing the palestinians. How can you feel sympathy for a atate which behave in that… Read more »
Khadeja,
Please either check your information (study real history instead of BS) or quit lying. Here is the truth about Islam and Judaism:
http://frontpagemag.com/2009/12/08/the-persistence-of-islamic-anti-semitism-by-robert-spencer/
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1437/classic-islamic-view-of-jews
http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=4&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=614&PID=0&IID=5174&TTL=The_Expulsion_of_the_Jews_from_Muslim_Countries,_1920-1970:_A_History_of_Ongoing_Cruelty_and_D
You have your facts wrong to a certain extent. While discrimination against Jews was much worse in Europe, Jews were still second class citizens in the Muslim world. The virulent, European style of anti-semitism (such as the blood libel) arrived in the Muslim world not when Israel was created but when Jews started returning to the land in general. A famous example is the fact that the Palestinian leader of Jerusalem traveled to Germany during WWII to consult with Hitler about how to enact the final solution in Israel. The increasing anti-semitism was part of the reason 800,000 Jews from… Read more »
Mohammed’s genocide project dates to AD 627 beginning with the Qurayza Jews. Hitler was relatively late to the game and was schooled by the Turkish Armenian genocide. For a more thorough discussion of genocidal Islmao-supremacism, read “The Legacy of Jihad” @ http://www.andrewbostom.org/loj/ Today, Jordanian-Arabs of The Palestinian Authority demand that no Jewish communities be allowed wherever they hope to govern (aka, removal of “settlements”); and Egyptian-Arabs in Hamastan have ethnically cleansed Gaza of every ethnic Jew. It would appear that people demanding the ethnic cleansing of Jews from these disputed territories envision one country (Israel) where Jews, Muslims and others… Read more »
With all do respect Donna, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about if you think there are no terrorists in Gaza or the West Bank. They aren’t all terrorists, but there are terrorists there. And to call millions of dollars, both American and Israeli, victimization is laughable. Please check your facts…
“An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.”
Sir Winston Churchill
British politician (1874 – 1965)
I attended the event, and found no hate speech. I’m a teacher, and a Christian, very familiar with Israel’s history. What I heard was Muslim Student Association hecklers hollering out an occassional contradiction to Mr. Horowitz when he discussed incontrovertible facts such as the 1967 attack on Israel. Fortunately, UCSB’s highly organized security dealt with each heckler swiftly, heading off the MSA’s previous free speech verbal blockade. Those opposing SA funding for this event seemed to think they have the right to do so because they didn’t like the content. They call it “hate speech”, but it was in reality… Read more »
I heard that what Horowitz said was much less controversial this time around. The reason UCSB mobilized against him was because in 2008, the last time he came here he said, among other things, that, “There is a movement for a second Holocaust of the Jews being supported on this campus by the [UCSB] MSA”. That is a very serious accusation to make and since he didn’t have any real proof to back it up it ended being hate speech, whether he meant it to be or not. People didn’t want him coming back here and repeating statements like that… Read more »
“There is a movement for a second Holocaust of the Jews being supported on this campus by the [UCSB] MSA”. 2 things: A: That is a totally inappropriate use of brackets. His point was that the MSA has ties with radical, openly Anti-Semitic groups who want to kill all Jews in the world. You change the antecedent with your bracket which is disingenuous. B: Nothing about the above quoted text is hate speech. It’s not even close. Hate speech would be, “Kill all Jews in the world.” Hate speech implies a specific call to arms against an individual and/or a… Read more »
It’s not an inappropriate use of brackets, I put them there to clarify that he was talking about the UCSB MSA. There is no other MSA on the UCSB campus, and he clearly said “this campus” during his UCSB speech so he was in fact referring to the UCSB MSA. I’m not saying what he said was illegal, but there is absolutely no doubt that it was hateful. If he thinks that it’s hateful for people to call him a racist how does he then justify saying that the UCSB MSA supports a second holocaust? Do you not see the… Read more »
Masada, Do you really think you’re clever? Does UCSB’s MSA support Hamas and Hezbollah? Have any of the UCSB’s MSA members publicly denounced Hamas or Hezbollah? Does the UCSB MSA support Iran? All of the above mentioned (and many more Islamic organizations and countries) have openly declared for and support the genocide of Israel. It appears that’s not worthy of even a word of condemnation from UCSB’s MSA. Not surprising, really. What with the ongoing genocide in Sudan (and UCSB’s MSA complete silence about this genocide) why would we expect any different when it comes to Jews in Israel? Of… Read more »
You got something wrong there buddy, the UCSB MSA says nothing about any of the political issues in the Middle East. SJP is the organization I believe you are referring to and guess what, the majority of the members of SJP here ARENT MUSLIM. Why would you single out an organization that makes no public statements about any political issues, ask them to make one, and then assume they hold a certain point of view because they don’t. Santa Barbara Hillel doesn’t make public political statements, do you assume they support genocide because of that? Believe me, I know what… Read more »
Masada,
How dare anyone associate any random MSA organization with…
http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/05/11/for-it-msa-student-confesses-she-wants-a-second-holocaust/
That’s ucsD buddy not ucsB.
Arafat,
You’re suggesting McCarthyism. It is not any Muslim’s job to denounce the actions of any other Muslim. They are not related. Ever heard of, “Sins of the father?” Same rules apply. The implication of requesting the MSA or any other organizations to “openly oppose” Hamas, Hezzbollah, et al is logically unsound and simply poor rhetoric.
Here again we find a misapplication of association guilt denial. If a student group formed a KKK chapter at UCSB, but didn’t engage in actual behaviors that Hunter finds abhorent, then no denunciation of the KKK agenda is required? If UCSB MSA members don’t wish to be tarred with MSA affiliation, then they should disassociate themselves and form a group that more accurately reflects their values. Maybe the kitten-kuddler-klub? In the interim, people of conscience have a duty to condemn MSA local chapters for their local and national organization’s rancid record of Islamo-supremacism and bigotry. http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7403 Local MSA chapters are… Read more »
The MSA has a history of questionable association. I’m not gonna repeat that stuff because other people have already delved into that extensively, if ineloquently, in this thread. As for, “Not saying it’s illegal,” that’s precisely what you said. Hate Speech, as it happens, is a very specific thing. And you knew that. That’s why you chose the word. To cast you opponent in a light that is indefensible. You chose that word for shock value, the same way that Horowitz chose his words for shock value. You two might have a little more in common than you want to… Read more »
First of all, I have no idea what the legal implications of the phrase “hate speech” are. My point is that particular statement by David Horowitz was absolutely hateful and in your own words, indefensible. It is simply too serious of an accusation to make without being 100% sure it is true because it directly affects the lives of the people in the UCSB MSA. Do you not get how awful it would be if people all over campus thought you supported a second holocaust when you didn’t?
So, you’re basically saying that you make wild claims without doing any type of research on what you’re saying? Doesn’t that sound EXACTLY like what you’re accusing Horowitz of doing? Furthermore, this quote: “My point is that particular statement by David Horowitz was absolutely hateful and in your own words, indefensible,” is completely untrue. I said that YOU were trying to paint Horowitz’s words as hate speech and thus indefensible speech, as a way of censoring him and publicly shaming those who might sympathize with his worldview. I was pointing out your rhetorical device and rebutting it, not agreeing with… Read more »
Horowitz is NOT “at fault for assuming that the MSA at UCSB is directly related to the national MSA.” Repeating that false assertion (ad nauseum) adds nothing to the discussion.
Local MSA chapters are indeed related to their parent organization. This empty-headed denial campaign notwithstanding, the cited evidence stands.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7403
lol the evidence that has nothing more recent than 2007 and cites a website which no longer exists. Realize this is a STUDENT organization meaning that not a single leader (and probably individual) that was part of UCSB MSA in 2007 is still part of it now.
*pffl* More empty-headed denials from Masada?
Grade: F- (miserable failure)
/dismissed
Go to their new website and tell me what you find objectionable. Go to their facebook page and find me an event that has anything to do with politics in the Middle East. If what was “true” back in 2007 is true now you should have no problem doing that.
Lol, I think you’re really confused and now are now making wild claims about me that you can’t back up. I wasn’t misreading your sentence, I was using one of your own words to argue against you in order to irritate you, which I clearly succeeded in doing. I’m not making any statements about Horowitz’s worldview. I actually agree with a fair amount of what he says. Unfortunately he also makes extremely hateful statements like the one I’ve been referring to. I agree that Palestinian Awareness Week often crosses the line from criticizing the Israeli government to being anti-semitic (sometimes… Read more »
No, Masada, You clearly characterized my statement to mean the exact opposite of what I said. And now that I’ve called you on it your defense is what? That you’re trolling these boards? That’s your defense? Seriously? You’ve already admitted that you form your opinions and throw around inflammatory remarks without doing any type of research, demonstrated that you have a poor grasp of rhetoric and likely the English language, and now you’re defending your buffoonery by admitting that you’re posting here specifically to lower the level of the level of debate. You, sir/ma’am are a truly terrible Emissary for… Read more »
I think you misread my statement that you keep ranting about so here it is again, “Do you not get how awful it would be if people all over campus thought you supported a second holocaust when you didn’t?” I’m saying it would be awful for the MSA if people thought they supported a second holocaust when in fact they do not. That’s all I was saying. I’ll restate it a 4th different way if you’re still confused. I used one word of your statement, “indefensible” to support my point of view because I do in fact think that saying… Read more »
[Masada bleats: “I truly believe that particular statement has the potential to incite hatred against Muslims”] *pffl* If that were true, then the exquisitely sensitive Masada should have no trouble citing an incident of (alleged) “hatred.” Afterall, the (allegedly) offensive Horowitz statement (aka: Free Speech) took place two years ago. But Masada won’t, because Masada can’t. There are no examples to cite. Conversely, incitement to violence by MSA’s co-conspirators against non-Muslims is a daily occurence, both in Dar-al-Islam and Dar-al-Harb. +17K deadly Islamo-supremacist attacks since 9/11 don’t lie. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ Don’t be an apologist for Islamo-supremacists your whole life, Masada. Grade:… Read more »
“There is a movement for a second holocaust of the Jews being supported on this campus by the MSA!” – David Horowitz at UCSB in 2008.
Douche.
The other thread got too long, so I’m responding to your initial claim. “My point is that particular statement by David Horowitz was absolutely hateful and in your own words, indefensible.” Those were your words. That was your entire sentence. You didn’t reuse one of my words in an ironic, deconstructing context, (as I did when I pointed out that, in my opinions the actions of “Palestinian Awareness Week” boarder on hate speech), you stated that I agreed that Horowitz’s words were indefensible. Perhaps you meant to say — “My point is that particular statement by David Horowitz was absolutely… Read more »
“Ye blind guides, that strain out the gnat, and swallow the camel!”
[Matthew 23:24]
As a Christian I always take care to denounce counterfeit Christianity in the strongest, clearest terms: skinheads that call Jews “Jesus killers,” pro-lifers that advocate killing abortion doctors, so-called “Identity” radicals that claim non-Caucasians have no souls. These Satanic blasphemers do not follow the Christ of God’s Scripture. Confusion sown by counterfeit Christians must be rebutted at every turn. I don’t understand why mainstream Muslims, for the most part, are unwilling to denounce what should be called the blasphemous counterfeits of Islam, the radicals who advocate the annihilation of Christians and Jews and the use of terrorism to force conversion… Read more »
Mel, The form of the questioning is different, as are the cultural assumptions. When you denounce what you deem as counterfeit Christianity, (I would personally argue that Christianity is every bit as warlike as Islam and that the Torah repeatedly discusses genocide in a positive light), you are not doing so because culture at large views you as in league with said groups. No one conflates the whole of Catholicism with Skinheads even when the current Pope was raised in the Nazi Youth. However, a great many in America dismiss the whole of Islam because of the actions of many… Read more »
Hunter, Your comments give even stronger support to the idea that U.S. Muslims have an great reason to denounce radical Islam. Given Muslim culture’s less intrinsic involvement in the Judeo-Christian fabric of American society, conservative followers should be loudly decrying terrorism as a tactic. This has nothing whatsoever to do with McCarthyism, and everything to do with clarifying that Islam doesn’t sanction killing unbelievers. Incidentally, the Catholic Inquisition and other historical terroristic tactics used by people calling themselves Christians is an exactly parallel situation: these were not true Christians, but counterfeits. Such counterfeits are easy to identify, as Jesus never… Read more »
Matthew 27:25 would seem to differ.
Hunter, That passage goes to the core of Christianity: that Jesus gave his life to redeem Man; it wasn’t taken from him. The context: Matthew 27:24-25 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. 25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. Fortunately, the people were wrong, as Jesus death was not caused by them: John 10:14-18… Read more »
Mel,
You’re falling into the relativistic camp, i.e., comparing Islam to Christianity when it’s clear you have little understanding of either religion.
Here’s a place where you can begin to understand just how profoundly different Islam is from any other religion on our planet.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/the_political_violence_of_the.html
http://www.meforum.org/2159/are-judaism-and-christianity-as-violent-as-islam
My oh my there’s that dreaded “McCarthyism” accusation. Problem is, Hunter, being honest about Islam is not McCarthyism, it is honesty.
Here are some additional McCarthys for you to rail against. It’s an honour to see Islam as the following men saw, and experienced Islam.
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T9VLFM30K16SAHC66
They do, all the time. But it is not news worthy is it?
Come on, siddhi. You know that isn’t true. The problem with this oft-repeated claim is that neither you nor any of your mainstream co-religionists are willing or able to back up that assertion. Cite an example of “mainstream Muslims” denouncing Islamo-supremacism or jihadism. You won’t, because you can’t.
Ironically, a very tiny minority of Secular Muslims who unequivocally denounce Islamo-supremacism are condemned by mainstream Muslims, precisely for courageously denouncing jihadism.
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis/
Invoke the name of a secular Muslim (Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Nonie Darwish, Wafa Sultan) and watch MSA toadies spontaneously foam at the mouth.
Masada,
Do you believe that where there is smoke there is fire?
http://frontpagemag.com/2011/06/01/expose-of-muslim-students-association/
Arafat,
the integrity of your source material matters. If you could find a non-openly bias source it would certainly help your credibility. I’m not saying you’re right or you’re wrong, just that you’re approach has many inherent weaknesses.
Hunter, That passage goes to the core of Christianity: that Jesus gave his life to redeem Man; it wasn’t taken from him. The context: Matthew 27:24-25 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. 25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. Fortunately, the people were wrong, as Jesus death was not caused by them: John 10:14-18… Read more »
Mohammed compared to Jesus.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Jesus-Muhammad.htm